GREEN GARDEN TOWNSHIP
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 8, 2019
The regular meeting was called to order by Supervisor Nolan at 7:00 p.m. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Roll Call In attendance were Trustees Wagner, Standish, Newton, Hellriegel, Commissioner Massat, Supervisor Nolan, and Clerk Coffey. Clerk Coffey submitted the minutes of the Budget Hearing and Regular Meeting held June 26, 2019 as well as the Special Meeting held June 26, 2019. There was a motion to approve the Budget Hearing, Regular Meeting, and Special Meeting minutes as submitted by Trustee Wagner with a second by Trustee Hellriegel. Voice vote: Motion carried.
PUBLIC COMMENTS – None
PLANNING COMMISSION
● 2 matters before Planning Commission
● A-2 to A-1 located on Center Rd. – Tabled, need to discuss
● Special Use Permit approved by Planning Commission (4-0) for property located 24149 LaGrange Rd., previously zoned & approved by board as Industrial. Existing building being sold, Pleckham intends to build another building for his sewer & water company. Attorney Cass Wennlund spoke on behalf of buyer, the Special Use Permit is needed for buyer to rent & sell light and heavy equipment. Joe from United Rental states high volume rental shop, more specialized (less traffic). Wagner voices concern regarding how it will look. Mr. Wennlund responds, County has regulations for screening. Majority of it being high end trailers with methodical placement. Mr. Pleckham’s new building will be to the north, using the existing drive. Case did not have to go before Frankfort. Wagner asks if we can add stipulation for berm or trees for appearance? Wennlund states screening in plan goes beyond what County calls for. Standish asks if it will be taxed Commercial? Will be taxed for use.
● There was a motion to accept Planning Commission’s recommendation for Special Use Permit by Trustee Hellriegel with a second by Trustee Newton. Roll Call: Hellriegel, yes; Newton, yes; Wagner, yes; Standish, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried 5-0.
● A-2 to A-1 located 24018 Center Rd. Owner wants to consolidate 2 parcels equalling 9.8 acres citing easement taken would have given him 10. County concerned there will be no limitation on wildlife. Applicant wants pole barn for storing hay, currently using trailers (neighbors displeased). County suggests Variance. Applicant agrees to table. Applicant went back to County to renew his Temporary Use. County’s thought was, he would continue with the Map Amendment. Don thinks Planning Commission will deny, Variance better. County interested in the Board’s input. May appear before Board in August. Supervisor Nolan states if applicant comes before us he wants him to bring the permits for driveway & barn located in back.
● Nothing for August at this time.
HIGHWAY COMMISSIONER’S REPORT – None
TRUSTEE’S REPORT – None
SUPERVISOR’S REPORT - None
NEW BUSINESS Appointment of Township Attorney, Wagner: Duties? Nolan: Representing Township other firm members to assist. I thought I sent everyone contracts, questions, and amendments. Rate $225 an hour, law clerks $125 an hour, & assistants $50 an hour. Standish: Is he coming to every meeting? Nolan: If we retain, he will attend August meeting, answer questions, concerns, rules, & procedures. Wagner: Doesn’t know if he wants to appoint, having not met with them. Hellriegel: Concurs. Newton: Why didn’t he come & introduce himself? Nolan: He will come after appointment. Wagner: Always had good luck with TOI attorneys for free, those are the people that know township law. Township is different than municipality, might be better using TOI instead of paying 225/hr or paralegal 125/hr. Newton: Cheaper than Road District attorney hourly rate I saw. I think the stack of things we’re sitting on right now, we can’t just pick up a phone and call someone for free. Nolan: Apologizes, thought he sent info to everyone. Wagner: I understand there are some legal issues, I don’t know if we as a board have articulated those legal issues enough to say this is what we’re looking at, now turn over to the attorney. Other words, I don’t want an attorney running the Township. I want the board to run Township, using attorney advice. If we have a question we have to articulate, so he knows exactly what our question is. Maybe if we do that well enough, we send it over to TOI, see if they give an answer off the top of their head, without having to pay $225 or $125 to research it. Standish: I have good luck with Brian Smith, calls back within 1-2 hours, next day at the latest. Newton: If we had visited this some time ago, got on the ball, and been in contact with TOI from the get go, and didn’t have a back log of issues and questions, I could see that. I think we’re past point of picking up the phone & calling for free advice. We need someone who can come to the next meeting, explain to us as a board, what we need to do. Wagner: That’s where your problem is going to be, attorney’s rely on paralegals to do research on what is really legal. You put a guy here, he’s gonna take a pretty good guess at it. If you want a solid answer, better off letting him go back & research. Newton: I don’t expect an answer right here. Wagner: What are our top issues requiring legal advice? Newton: This resolution, going forward with accounts to be set up, transfers, funds, how we’re moving money around and we’re not sure. That needs to be addressed with attorney. Wagner: so I think we need to articulate what we intended to do, what we did, send off to attorney and say “Did we do it legally?” Newton: Agreed. Wagner: Maybe the first attorney we send to is TOI & try to get free advice. Hellriegel: We’re already paying them. Newton: Ok, who will come and sit with us as a board? I think we’re making it too simple wishing it away, to get free advice. Wagner: You’re making it too easy on us, we’re not taking responsibility if we just want somebody to come in and do our jobs. We need to articulate what our questions are, what problems we think we have and then send it off to them. They don’t have to be here to do that. Newton: They don’t have to be here at every meeting and answer our questions on the spot. I would assume they wouldn’t assume they would answer all of my questions, of course I’d rather he look up, research, coming back with a solid answer, not just tell us what we want to hear. What he thinks. I just don’t think it’s in our best interest to make a phone call to someone, one of us relay to the board. Wagner: I’m not saying a phone call, if we have this much of a problem, we need to articulate in writing and send it off. Get answer in writing, phone calls won’t cut it. Newton: What township in this county doesn’t have an attorney? Coffey: Actually, TOI, when I contacted them said “Where the hell”s your attorney? Wagner: Did they? I know I’ve contacted them before and Russ has. Nolan: They won’t represent us. Wagner: No, they won’t. Newton: It’s not the same thing. Nolan: They won’t put in writing. Wagner: They’ll advise us what laws and statutes are. Newton: Then it’s open to our interpretation. Wagner: Well, then we can take that to attorney and say this is what we did, here’s the law, are we good? I just don’t want attorney to run the township. Newton: I don’t like giving answers, assuming we’re doing it right and come back that we didn’t do it right. We should ask for advice. Wagner: Then we table it until we get advice. I don’t think we have to bring in an attorney and pay $225 to ask to his face. Newton: I don’t know 1 township that doesn’t have an attorney. Wagner: Do they come to every meeting? Newton: No, I never said I thought they should. Nolan: I don’t think this is about that, first thing, we have to have an attorney, currently we do not. Wagner: I agree. Nolan: That’s what this is. How we utilize him is at the boards discretion. Rules, regulations and how to use him, but we need to have one. We haven’t had one in 6 years. Standish: How many wrong decisions have we made? Wagner: You’ve already asked attorney for this (resolution) does this cost us money? Nolan: Yes. Wagner: Are your happy with this? Newton: No, because it’s not right. Wagner: There’s your problem, why pay attorney to do this? Newton: I’ll tell you, go back and read all the minutes, they are contradictory, and what I have been told to my face has been very contradictory on this $220,000 loan. Standish: That’s the name of the game called lawyers, everything is contradictory. Newton: Has Road District made 1 re-payment to the township? Bob? Massat: What? Newton: Have you made 1 re-payment on this $220,000 loan? Massat: We were in the course of the Townhall maintenance. Newton: So, No? Massat: And doing maintenance on that. Nolan: The answer is no. It was just put into the budget for this year, that we just passed. Newton: There should have been 2 payments by today, so this resolution isn’t right, if it’s going to be paid off by 2027. We’re going to have to increase terms of payments. Nolan: Correct, Cherie to be honest with you, payments are dictated by the board, through the budget. Wagner: Right. Nolan: So you could come back next year or amend budget and say we want $50,000, or $75,000. Loan has to be paid by 2027. Newton: Those terms need to be spelled out, and I’m not seeing it in the resolution. Do you know what I’m saying? Re-payment before November 2027. Nolan: Correct. Newton: Can we get a piece of paper, promissory note, something to that effect? (Nolan hands Cherie promissory note) Newton: Does it take into consideration he’s already made a payment? Nolan: Nope, promissory note has to be paid by 2027. Newton: So it will be budgeted each year, what he will pay back, projected? Nolan: Correct. Wagner: The way you can make that demand is don’t pass the budget, if you don’t pass the budget you get no more money after June. Nolan: Sorry Cherie, I thought I sent all this to you. Newton: Maybe I have, I do. So, $220,000 loan, did attorney see copy of check, voucher, or payment? Did he just go with what you said, the check was only for $210,000 something, right? Nolan: either way, loan still for $220,000. Newton: What was the $9,000 difference? Nolan & Massat: Trade in. Newton: And we have all that documented for posterity? If i’m signing this, I want it attached, everything that went along with this agreement. Then we won’t have this discussion again. Nolan: Ok. Going back to lawyer now. Wagner: What’s question posed to attorney? We’re going to an attorney, to ask him what? What do we want him to answer? Nolan: Question came up, you cannot loan money to Road District. Coffey: That’s not true,”transfer” not loan. Nolan: There is a statute that says we can do that, loan. Massat: (Inaudible) Newton: Stop that, It’s rude. Hellriegel: So we can? Nolan: Yes, Bills resolution originally stood, there’s no problem with the resolution originally put forth. Resolution we have now has more teeth in it, also has statute in there. Coffey: So it was legal? Nolan: Yes. Coffey: We all know the loan was legal, it was legal to transfer? Nolan: Yes, the loan. Coffey: They are two different things. Nolan: Ok, correct. Coffey: I understand the last meeting they said the loan money, there was nothing wrong with that. Nolan: Correct. Coffey: The statute states we can’t transfer the way we did. Nolan: Correct. Wagner: And we didn’t transfer it, we loaned it. Nolan: No, instead of writing a check. Coffey: They transferred. Nolan: I transferred money and didn’t write a check to do so. Wagner: Electronic funds transfer? Nolan: Yes. Wagner: That’s Ok. Coffey: That’s what I’m asking. Wagner: It doesn’t matter, the mechanics of getting the money from one place to another. Just transferring monies levied from one account to another levied account. That you cannot do. You can loan it, you just can’t give it. Newton: Did we vote on it prior to the transfer? Nolan: That’s where we come up with whether it was a discussion or a vote. Coffey: It was never brought up. Newton: It’s not in the minutes. Wagner: Ok, so it’s not in the minutes and we’ve beaten a dead horse enough. What do we need to do to rectify it? It’s not in the minutes, what do you want? Nolan: Everybody on this Board signed off on the Resolution in 2019. Wagner: Which was an attempt to correct the omission in the past. Newton: Right. Wagner: You’re still not satisfied, so what else do you need? Nolan: So, everyone signed off on the resolution there was no problems. I don’t know what else to tell everybody, you signed, you signed, etc. Noone forced anyone’s arm. We put it up for vote, resolution Bill wrote, we put together, everyone voted. Newton: So the resolution Bill did, was it identical to this? And we did not have a promissory note. I’ve been asking for months for a payment schedule of some sort. Wagner: That’s what you want, that’s missing is a payment schedule? Are we going to be flexible on payment schedule, or do you not want to be flexible on a payment schedule? Newton: I think not paying for 2 years doesn’t look like we are staying on top of what we’re supposed to be doing. Wagner: Ok. Murday: May I offer a suggestion, sounds like I understand concern, not putting somebody as Township attorney without meeting that person. I think that someone who wants to be the Township attorney should be here presenting him or herself, explaining why it is they have the background and experience. Ask if familiar with township law vs. municipality. Hire somebody and say, look, here are the facts, here are the documents, this is what happened. I hear everyone saying that’s lawful, that’s this. With all due respect I don’t know, if I was a board member, I would like the comfort in knowing I’ve paid someone who’s an expert in this, to tell us what’s right or wrong. If it’s wrong, this is what we need to do to rectify it. Then follow that advice, because you’ve now paid for that advice, and from the board’s perspective, you’re protected. If the 7 of you looked at the statute, you can come up with different interpretations of what that statute is. Pay the guy who does this for a living, who will tell you what case law is, interpreting that statute. As opposed to people reading it and trying to figure out what it means. To me, money well spent from township perspective to alleviate concerns. Spend the money, you don’t have someone sitting here every meeting, you have me, free legal advice. Bring that person in, have them look at it and say, this is what you need to do. Ducks in a row, tied in a bow, and put it away. Wagner: I think Jim did that. Nolan: Yeah. Wagner: He did exactly that. Murday: Sounds like there are still questions people have. $225 is reasonable. Newton: That’s low, attorney I work for is $300/hr. Striggow: Is that attorney versed in township law? Nolan: Yes. Striggow: What are his credentials? Where has he worked? Murday: Mahoney is very knowledgeable to my recollection, has he farmed this out? Nolan: He saw & signed everything. Newton: Who is Marron? It was signed by Marron Mahoney. Coffey: Son? Striggow: That’s his kid, that’s not George, thats why $225. Murday: Just make sure you’re not getting bait & switch, you’re not getting George. Newton: You would have thought, his son would have introduced or said my father relayed this. Nolan: He sent everything and talked to me on the phone. He has 8 townships, including housing authorities, and Frankfort itself. Newton: If nothing else we need to have an attorney. Wagner: I agree. Newton: I’m not saying I’m going to pick up the phone and pepper him with questions, but something this big going on this long, and interpretation, that statute we can all interpret a different way. We need attorney to say this. Wagner: It’s not so much the statute, you don’t agree to the terms. Newton: What terms? Wagner: The payment terms. Newton: That it will be paid back in 10 years, that’s the only terms we have. Wagner: And you don’t agree with that? If all we need to do is discuss that, change resolution and then have him approve that. Jim’s already been through give the stuff to attorney, came up with these things, but doesn’t articulate what our concerns were as a whole board. That’s what my problem is, if you have a concern, let’s air it out and then turn over to attorney. Have him know what we’re looking for. Striggow: Does the attorney interview everyone on the board? The question that came up, who talked to him? Jim, did you? Nolan: I did. Striggow: I think the board , entire board is responsible for what happens. It takes more than 1 guy dictating his version of what has to happen here, and what’s going on. I think that resolution should have come forward from the entire board. Because right now if that’s not right, it’s your fault Jim. Nolan: It goes back to “It’s fine!” Everyone keeps going back & forth. Standish: We didn’t do anything wrong, we still haven’t done anything wrong. What we’re doing, figure out, it’s supposed to be 10 years, supposed to be able to “on demand” tell Bob to give back all the money. That’s what I was told by Brian Smith. So I go along with fact. Ok you wanna find out everything, ask attorney. I don’t see any need to buy attorney for the rest of our life. Coffey: We’re not buying. Standish: No, we’re renting. Newton: He only gets paid for what he does. Wagner: I guess we disagree to use him. Newton: We vote once we have to agree to use him, that way we have one, we might not talk to him for a month, maybe 8 months. Standish: So he doesn’t send us a bill? Newton: We only get billed for time he spends. Standish: So he’s just attorney on call? We’re not paying him? Murday: Like my clients, I don’t send them a bill unless I work for them. I don’t send them a bill because I’m their attorney. I bill because I’ve done something for them. Even if you have a retainer you’re not paying somebody for privilege of having attorney, they work to get paid. So what you’re doing today is just appointing, and if you retain him to do something, now you have an attorney. Standish: So for our pick is this Mahoney? There’s no problem if you’re gonna call him & he sends you a bill later, and it’s just for the 1 time thing & we don’t have anything for 3 years he doesn’t get paid? Newton: Right. Standish: Sounds like getting your car fixed. You pay for what you get done. Why are we arguing? Nolan: Russ I don’t know. Newton: So what are you thinking? At least meet him, have him interview us as well? Wagner: What I just heard, I’d be fine to vote for him now, but I don’t want us to just say here’s the thing go fix it. I want us to articulate, what do we think is wrong with this? Why not vote for it now? Murday: As the attorney, here are the thing you make sure you do, make sure you give him everything, not the things you want him/her to see, not the recollection that is the colored recollection you have. As I tell my clients, I want to know everything. What I want to know more wholly is the bad stuff, so I can figure out what we need to do. Don’t sugar coat things, don’t cherry pick things, as an attorney I want everything. Newton: I would think he’d want to see all our paperwork. Murday: I will say this, I’ve worked with George Mahoney in the past, very competent. Nolan: He knows municipal, township, state, and everything else with whole staff behind him. My personal opinion, no brainer. Pay him as we use him, I don’t get it. Coffey: Can I ask a question? Are we disputing the fact we need a township attorney? Or are we disputing something we need to discuss with him later? So no one is opposed to voting for one? Wagner: Correct. Nolan: That’s whole different issue altogether,
going forward, we have to put in rules, what we want, not disagreeing, but we have to have an attorney. Wagner: I just want to make it clear, I don’t want to pay for an attorney, and say here’s everything we got. Nolan: We have to be clear of what we want. Coffey: I think that’s what Cherie was stating. Nolan: I think so.
● Trustee Wagner made a motion to accept Mahoney and his firm as Township Attorney. Supervisor Nolan asked for a second. (Newton asked Hellriegel “Staring contest?”) Trustee Newton seconded the motion. Roll Call: Wagner, yes; Newton, yes; Standish, yes; Hellriegel, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried. 5-0. Vote for compensation for Attorney. Wagner: Do we really have a say in that? Nolan: Yep. I was instructed by attorney that’s how you do this. Wagner: Ok. Can we lower them a little bit and vote? Nolan: $225/hr, paralegals at $125/hr, and assistants at $50/hr. Can I have a motion? Newton: On compensation.
● Trustee Hellriegel made a motion to accept compensation. (Stating,”Staring contest Cherie”) There was a second to the motion by Trustee Standish. Roll Call: Hellriegel, yes; Standish, yes; Wagner, yes; Newton, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried 5-0. Vote on resolution amending Resolution 2019-01. Newton: I have a question, did you forward to Mahoney the resolution we did January 14, 2019? Did he see a copy of that? Nolan: Yes. Newton: Does he have a copy of paperwork? Check voucher, trade-in, the difference between the $220,000 and $210,000? Does he have everything? Nolan: He has a copy of voucher, check, and I believe bill of trucks? Newton: Ok. Nolan: I’m almost positive I copied everyone on that. One thing I will tell you, this is on old one we all signed, says Green Garden Township Road District agreed to make annual payment each year during last month of the fiscal year in amount determined & budgeted by Green Garden Township Board of Trustees. So when you look at how it’s written, we go through budgets and determine how much he pays. Newton: I know but the transfer happened in 2017. In November of 2027 is wrapped up? Wagner: I can read it. (Bill read Resolution 2019-01 Amended) See attached. Newton: Does the attorney know that this was not voted on? Nolan: I told him I had not seen it in the minutes and it probably more than likely was not voted on, the original one. Newton: So if we sign this, even because that wasn’t right, this makes it all right according to the attorney? Nolan: The last resolution makes it Ok, all this has is more teeth in it, for on demand. Striggow: So there’s no annual payment, unless it’s in the budget? Nolan: Has to be in the budget Monroe. When you look back you’re gonna say for whatever reason Road District comes up short one year, we may pass him at making a payment. May come back following year $200,000 over and take $40,000. That’s something the Board decides, we’re the ones doing the budget. That’s philosophy on it. Hellriegel: So we can’t ask for payment schedule, cause it would be budgeted every year. Newton: To be paid back in 10 years. Hellriegel: So Road District Commissioner needs to budget every year. Nolan: We have to approve budget every year,if we don’t like the payment, we don’t have to sign off on his budget. Hellriegel: If he budgets $30,000 a year it gets paid off before. Nolan: Yes board has to approve. Newton: So why was there talk in the minutes he’s paid $20,000? Where did that come from? See why I’m hesitant? Nolan: It’s got to be in the budget and we didn’t pass a budget. Coffey: But this was done in 2017. Nolan: Yes, but it wasn’t in the 2018 budget, but it is in the 2019 budget. Wagner: I think we have to concede on January 14, 2019, we admitted not having all our ducks in a row. That was our best effort at that time to put all our ducks i a row, the only thing lacking was the demand. Nolan: Yes, that was it. Wagner: Now
is there a reason not to move forward? Newton: Reading the attorney’s letter, he says go ahead, but I don’t know if he knew the other stuff. Wagner: Russ you made original motion to accept the resolution, did you want to make the motion to accept the amendment?
● Trustee Standish made a motion to accept the amendment, with a second by Trustee Wagner. Roll Call: Standish, yes; Wagner, yes; Hellrigel, yes; Newton: If this is final, final from the attorney and this is what he says I’ll vote yes. I guess if we have to have an amended, amended we’ll do that. We can amend the Resolution in the future if need be, is that correct? Nolan: Yes, you can always amend it. Nolan, yes. Motion carried. 5-0. Nolan: I want to have a discussion on CPA handling financial tasks, managing outgoing monies, vendor payments, and payroll processing instead of doing it on our own. I want to bring it to accountant, have him do payroll, all vendors, vouchers, everything. I have some prices from him, basically costing us doing payroll also. $313 a month which is $4.55 a voucher, annual cost about $3700, $3756. Newton: What’s the budget right now $4,000-$4,500? Nolan: $15,000 for accounting services. Newton: You’re estimating it at what? Day to day? Nolan: $3756 yearly. Standish: How’s that square with Sue and signing your name? Newton: Same way. Nolan: Same process. For you guys basically seamless, walk in here sign off on bills like you always did. Voucher statements, bank books, whole nine yards. Hellriegel: So we’re paying someone $3600 a year for how many checks a year? Jim, you have 10 checks, Bob has 40. Nolan: This is for both. Hellriegel: Ok, isn’t that what we pay you for? Bob’s got somebody that does his work, your budget is for someone to do, you know, to do the checks. Shouldn’t we keep this in the township? Shouldn’t you see everything, instead of just sending it off? Newton: Well he wouldn’t be getting reimbursed for that any longer. Hellriegel: But he already gets it. His pay is to be the Supervisor, and do township stuff. Newton: You get paid separate though, right per year? Hellriegel: Bob is the Road District Commissioner and gets paid to do Road District stuff, you’re just spending money to do things. Coffey: We’re also paying someone else to help with finances. Newton: It’s not just that. Hellriegel: But you’re already doing that, but adding to it. Newton: He (Jim) gets paid to do it, Penny gets paid to do it. Hellriegel: Correct. Massat: As the secretary. Hellriegel: As the secretary. Newton: I get that, how does Penny get paid to do the town’s? Hellriegel: She don’t, Jim does. Coffey: No. Wagner: Technically Penny does do it. Coffey: She gets paid for that too. Hellriegel: Ok, but I don’t see taking the checkbooks, or register for writing checks away from us. Face forward, you see every bit. Newton: The bills aren’t going to go directly to CPA, right, obviously. Jim still gets them in the mail, Bob still gets them in the mail. Nolan: Bring to the accountant, make sure everything is right. Let me tell you something, we’ve been doing it this way for 8 years before I was here. How come I still have problems with the IRS from 2015 then? Hellriegel: That was previous guy. Nolan: Doesn’t matter though, that’s how mistakes happen. Certified CPA doing your stuff, that knows government really well, makes common sense. Wagner: There could also be division here, separating basic bookkeeping from CPA work. When you hire a CPA company you’re not really getting a CPA doing the work, your getting a bookkeeper going to do all that for you. Maybe, to keep us out of the biggest headache, payroll taxes and send those off to the accountant to deal with. Nolan: 941’s. Wagner: Yes, that’s what my wife does, my wife does her own payroll and she has 35 employees. She pays weekly payroll taxes, she prints out her report and sends off to accountant. They pay all payroll taxes. I share Don’s concern. Hellriegel: I’m sorry, I mean you know Bob pays his bills, Jim you pay your bills. If your issue is payroll taxes I can see that. Nolan:
Don to be honest with you Bob doesn’t pay his bills, I pay his bills. Hellriegel: You’re picking on me now. Nolan: I’m not trying to pick on you. Hellriegel: You’re getting nit picky on what I’m {….}. I just think we’re giving too much of the township away. Murday: I would think the flip side to that is you’re going to an independent and relying on someone’s expertise. Yeah, you’re divulging yourself of responsibilities you’ve had in the past, but you’re giving it to someone who is a totally objective person, who is going to do things by the book, because that’s what they get paid to do. Most importantly in my mind, you’re buying protection. Same thing buying a lawyer. You hire a lawyer, follow his advice, and if they’re wrong, then you have recovery against them, you have malpractice. Same thing with the accountant. You say “handle this” and if something happens with the IRS or something goes off the rails, you turn to the accountant, CPA and say “guess what? You have to fix it.” So it relieves that burden from the township and it gives the appearance of objectivity too. I don’t know whether price is fair or not, but to me it’s money well spent. At that point in time there is no appearance of impropriety, because everything is out of your hands. It’s in someone else’s hands, they take care of it, so there can’t be any second guessing or what about this, what about that. Even today, you’re obviously unaware of who was paying what on behalf of who. Now, you give it to someone and say, you don’t have to do it forever, but maybe you do it and see how it goes. You can say, maybe, this hasn’t really helped us at all and pull it back, it’s not as if you lose it forever. You can certainly fire people as easily as you hire them. Striggow: I take opposite side of this, I agree with Don & Bill. If 941’s are filed timely you ain’t gonna have a problem with the IRS, that’s where the problem lies. You should get them done timely. If she (Bills wife) could do 35 employees, and I have a few of my own, if you’re late you’re gonna be getting paid for it back until this gets straightened out. In 2015 if this happened and you were all on the board, then something fell through the cracks, didn’t get done timely. You pay for that for a long time. I think day to day is good. I agree with Bill, I think, let that report go to a CPA. I think you give up some of your duties then what the hell do we need you guys for? That’s what you get paid for. Thank you. Wagner: I think township ordinances say you have to have a voucher, you can’t make a payment without a voucher. We’d have to implement voucher system and hand it over to an accountant. Striggow: Isn’t that what you have now, vouchers? Wagner: Voucher and check print out on same page. Striggow: So when you sign a voucher, does it tell you what your buying? Wagner: No, it pretty much tells you who you’re paying it to, general idea. Striggow: How do you know what you’re paying for? Wagner: Well all the bills coming through now, have the receipt attached to the voucher. Striggow: So you do know? Wagner: You do know, we sign the receipts at a board meeting. Hellriegel: I just think we should keep the board’s hand in it. If the payroll taxes are that much we should try that for a start. Just me speaking out. Nolan: $4,000 and you guys are gonna argue over $4,000? Wagner: Does that include doing all payroll, filings, and everything? Nolan: You were already paying for payroll filing. Wagner: So it doesn’t include that? Nolan: You were paying that. These laws change all the time, you know as well as I do, the laws change on a record basis, and we’re dealing with a million bucks. Writing checks every single day, no different than the loan shit that happened. Excuse my language. I’m sorry, it (loan) was on the wrong vouchers, the vouchers weren’t signed right. We never went through and looked back. That doesn’t happen with a CPA. Wagner: It does happen with CPA, who do you think is writing the vouchers? We are, you are, your writing voucher and sending to CPA. Nolan: No, no, no, you’re handing the thing, he’s pulling it all up. Wagner: No. Nolan: $4.50 a voucher. Wagner: You have to look at, he doesn’t write vouchers, you do. Nolan: He prints it all out, does everything, vouchers & everything. Wagner: You have to present him with a voucher to write a check. Nolan: A bill. Wagner: No, a voucher, and we used to have 2 part forms of vouchers. I remember everything was paper, then you had to go and write the checks based on vouchers. Murday: Is there money in the budget earmarked for somebody to do this right now? Is the $4,000 cost or is it a savings up for something someone is no longer doing? Nolan: It’s a wash. Murday: So it’s not an expense? Nolan: It’s a wash. I’ve told you guys before this, I’m not comfortable writing out all the checks on a regular basis. No offense Bill, it’s your program, that program crashes, we’re S.O.L. I brought this up to you before, I’m not yelling at you, it’s already $4,000 we’re already spending. Wagner: It’s not as easy as saying give all bills to accountant and they’ll write them. It’s much more complex than that. Nolan: Ok. Hellriegel: You say it’s $4,000. Bushong: I used to be executive director for a chamber of commerce, I did all payroll, I did all bills, but I did have an accountant, a CPA that oversaw what I did. So he didn’t do data entry or issue checks, but he did scrutinize me. If he saw anything at all that was kinda amiss, he would question me about it. Which was good because it gave my board the comfort that we had a CPA checking everything I was doing and that’s what this kind of provides us. Wagner: But, how does a CPA check, I think that’s our job as a board of Township Trustees to sign off on those bills. That’s kinda our check. Nolan: Which you guys would. Wagner: Can a CPA really determine whether a bill should be paid or not? I understand you come up with questions for him. You say hey, we want to do this transfer. Bushong: I don’t think that’s what they’re doing. I don’t think they’re determining what bills need to be paid, I think they are over seeing it from an accounting standpoint. Hellriegel: But they’re just paying them, if he’s issued a voucher, they’re just paying them. Bushong: But you guys are still doing your same job, just like you are now. I don’t see it really being any different. We just have a third party out there that’s a CPA that’s overseeing the process. Wagner: If he’s a CPA maybe he ought to approve them too for us, just being facetious. Hellriegel: Jim, you threw out “just $4,000” I work my ass off for $4,000. I don’t think it’s just. Nolan: Don, I’m already paying $4,000 to have him process regardless right now, so it’s a wash for us. I’ve told this board before, either cut the taxes or do something right with the money. I said it last year and year before that. Cut the budgets, do something. Wagner: That’s off topic, what’s $4,000 being spent for now? Nolan: Penny processes all of our bills. Wagner: And she gets paid $4,000? Massat: I think it’s $3,000. Nolan: It’s $3,600. Hellriegel: $4,000 is just a number? Nolan: $36 something. Wagner: For $3,700 they’ll do all that plus the payroll filings? Nolan: They already do payroll filing. Wagner: Is $3,700 in addition to what he’s getting paid now to do payroll filings? Nolan: Payroll filings are $189 every 3 months, I believe, we also paid him last year $4,500-$4,600 for our AFR. Wagner: Ok. Striggow: Who’s the CPA you use? Nolan: Steve Weber, he was the County Treasurer knows government very well. Coffey: He was the auditor for 8 years. Nolan: I don’t think you’ll find anyone more qualified, be honest with you, in this county. Standish: Is there a lag time from when we sign bills to when he gets it? Nolan: It all needs to be worked out, discussions. I’ll be honest bills are not going to come on Saturday and be paid Monday. That’s no different than any other business. Massat: That’s problem I have, a lot of times you get bill on Friday or Saturday, and if you don’t pay, then you get a late charge. If Penny gets on Saturday, she makes out a voucher for Board Meeting on Monday. With this system, if I get bills on Friday or Saturday they’re gonna have to wait an extra month before they get paid. They’re gonna charge you a late charge, instead of getting paid Monday. Newton: They will work on terms with you. Massat: No, I get late charges. Newton: If you work with them, they can be avoided, I’ve worked in accounting. Hellriegel: We still have to approve the bills. Newton: We do, we will. Hellriegel: It’s a month before, even Jim’s bills, it’s a month before they’re presented at board meeting. Wagner: That’s kinda always been a problem with utility bills too. You go ahead and pay them anyway. Newton: I know what you’re saying. Coffey: How do you do the ACH’s then? Wagner: True, probably illegal, how does IRS or State of Illinois collect payroll taxes? Same way. Nolan: They say we have to cut checks for everything, but State of Illinois won’t let you pay taxes by check, you have to do online. By the laws they wrote, it doesn’t work. It’s a double edged sword, you’re fighting all the time. That’s why I’d rather have an attorney that knows what he’s doing, an accountant, that knows what he’s doing. Going back some years the last accountant we had quit. Wagner: But Jim, it doesn’t matter, it was bad accounting practices. Hellriegel: You’re going backwards. Nolan: I’m not going backwards, but I’m not repeating the past either. Wagner: That’s the key. I totally agree with making future easier and identifying those problems like payroll taxes, it is a big headache and problem, get rid of that. Nolan: Some of these things you can’t do anymore, gets to a point, the laws are changing. Monroe, I know you do your own thing, that’s great, how many people here have been audited? (Several hands raised). I don’t want to put township in that predicament. Striggow: We know you better than that Jim, you wouldn’t do that. Nolan: It’s a wash. Striggow: What you going to do give up your payroll funding and put toward other thing? Nolan: I’m paying $4,000 now, just doing same thing. You know what I’m doing differently? I’m driving to accountants and handing him everything, explaining, he prints checks, makes sure everthing is in right categories, and I come back a couple days later, pick up vouchers and come back. That’s what I do now. Striggow: (Jokingly) Maybe Penny don’t want to do it anymore for $4,000 (Cheap ***) (laughter). Nolan: Not up for vote, just discussion.
OLD BUSINESS - Will Ride
● Overall less than $3,000 a year cost (Hellriegel)
● Budget $2,000 & we sign Authorization for people (Standish)
● Budget 20 rides/month, 60 day out, not up for vote, put on August agenda (Nolan) ● Can always amend budget, What fund? Township Fund, vote in August (Nolan) Wagner: Newspaper asked about MFT, probably could use some clarification. The reason we don’t show as Revenue every year in our budget is because we don’t get the money from the state, the money goes to the county. The county will give it to us when we ask for it. If we have a project going on, then we’ll tell the county. We’ll budget MFT, we’ll budget say, $1600 MFT money and get money from the county. It’s kind of goofy, but the reason we don’t budget is they don’t have money in our accounts and it is not a levied amount. We’ve been advised not to budget MFT. Striggow: I thought there was always a line item for MFT. Wagner: If Bob decides he’s going to do a project and use MFT, Striggow: How do you do that? Wagner: You let it build up until you get enough to do a paved road, then you hit the county. County will reimburse you. You send all your bills to the county, and they will reimburse. Nolan: They might, they can deny it. Massat: We don’t even get the bills, they go straight to the county. Nolan: For reimbursement. Wagner: When Bob sends all bills to county, they review and reimburse. We call it MFT Reimbursement. Newton: Do you get a letter from the State or County? Massat: When we bid a job, it’s all handled through county. They do the engineering, bid letting, they write the check, and their engineers are out on job site. We basically have nothing to do with it, all handled through
county. And do I get monthly statement? Newton: Does the county say we have X amount of money for you? Massat: Once a year they tell you how much is in your fund. May vary, State may say we need X amount of money and cut their budget in half. Schultz: Does it accumulate? Massat: Yeah, it does accumulate. They handle all that, I don’t get nothing. Chris Russel (Vedette)l: Usually they allocate by population of taxing district. Massat: Based on your miles. Russell: That’s how they do in village, not sure on township. Massat: Based on miles within township, some townships have 30 miles, 20 miles, so theirs may be $4,000 a year, a month. You have 80 miles in township you can get $7,000 a month from state. We don’t get it, it goes to county. Newton: They will be making payment to every township, every Road District with this new “Incentive” it’s going to be a lot of money, a one time thing, sizable from what I hear. Massat: I haven’t heard anything about how much money, and that isn’t gospel yet. Striggow: So on prior budgets was that a live number that we had? That came back from the state, we had $60,000 from MFT, was that a real number? Nolan: What that is, is money he’s looking to see if he can be reimbursed, if you’re doing $100,000 in stone for a road, you may be able to get back $20,000 in reimbursement. So really you’re spending $80,000, but you’re budgeting $100,000. If the county signs on it, you can get 20 grand back on it. Striggow: I guess without line item in there, it doesn’t look like we’re applying for it. Coffey: So is the amount you use 1 year to the next, what you have received from the prior year? Wagner: The amount we show in budget is just how much of that money has accumulated at county, that we intend to spend this year. So if you don’t have a big project, you may not spend any of that MFT money in 1 year. You may have enough since it’s accumulating, to do an entire mile. The following year you’ll budget that entire mile. Striggow: Why wouldn’t you report your accumulated MFT tax revenues? Why wouldn’t that show? Wagner: Because if your budget gets to a certain amount, your status changes in TOI. Things like assets aren’t sitting in you bank account, you’re not levying for them, so you don’t show them as revenues. Same with bond money, you don’t want to show that in your revenue. To get State monies you don’t want your revenue to look higher than what they really are, for taxes. Then you get into a whole different category of what you have to do, hoops you have to jump through. Nolan: Can I have a motion to adjourn? There was a motion to adjourn the meeting by Trustee Wagner with a second by Trustee Newton. Voice vote: Motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:43 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Coffey, Clerk