2019.10.14 Meeting Minutes
GREEN GARDEN TOWNSHIP
OCTOBER 14, 2019
The regular meeting was called to order by Supervisor Nolan at 7:01 p.m.
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Roll call – In attendance were Trustees Wagner, Newton, Standish, Hellriegel, Commissioner Massat,
Supervisor Nolan, and Clerk Coffey.
Clerk Coffey submitted the minutes of the regular meeting held September 9, 2019. There was a motion to
approve the minutes submitted by Trustee Standish, with a second by Trustee Hellriegel. Voice vote: Motion
PUBLIC COMMENTS – Schultz: At the end. Nolan: Ok, never stopped you.
PLANNING COMMISSION – Chairman Murday stated matter set for planning commission next month, it is
property on LaGrange owned by Tracy family. Map amendment from A-1 to I-1 thought being, would like to
lease under I-1 to become income producing. For sale sign posted, also interested in selling. Murday to have
conversation with attorney representing Tracy family. Will ask if they want I-1 before sale. Some confusion over
if someone wants to buy & put something up there, don’t know why they wouldn’t purchase and then come
before us and County to rezone, as opposed to Tracy’s rezoning A-1 to I-1. Chairman Murday will provide
Trustee Newton with information for the website. Newton: I have put it on website. Murday: I think they are
going to carve out 5-10 acre parcel fronting LaGrange to zone I-1. Will county ordinance has to be 10 acres.
Nolan: how many acres in all? Murday: I think 60-70.
Murday: A gentleman called me, he resides at 8045 W Pauling Rd., Bob knows him, has discussed flooding
issues, wants to know if township can help alleviate flooding issue in front of his property. Gave info to Nolan,
and advised he come to the board. Just wanted to let everyone know. Newton: I spoke with him as well, and
told him to come to a meeting. Wagner: I replied to an email, stating same thing. Massat: He wants to run
water, it all goes to the south and he wants to run it to the north, and head east. It does not go that way. He
can come here and talk to these people all he wants. Unless they can get a grant from County and put tiles to
go to south east, is the way it’s supposed to go. But when people build homes and put in pastures, all that,
fencing pole barns, they screw all that up and look for someone else to help drain their property. I talked to the
guy, I’m not diggin a 9ft ditch down the road to help him out. I’m not doing it. Hellriegel: The flow of water
across property from 1 side to other. Massat: I’m going from one watershed to another watershed and you
can’t do that, by law. Nolan: About 2 ½ years ago, I went with you over there. Massat: About a year and a half
ago I told him. Nolan: Wants to drain off his property into ditches back to creek, should probably talk to County.
Hellriegel: When creek right behind him. Nolan: I don’t think that’s his property. Hellriegel: It’s not, but go talk to
your neighbor once you send him the water, then they have to do something with it. Nolan: When you drive
down 88th Ave. before Offner, floods on each side, building house right in middle, how County is allowing, I
don’t comprehend at all. Land Use allowing them. Hellriegel: He’s kind of on a high spot. Wagner: Looks as if
he’s only inches above grade with his foundation. Massat: He is gonna put in a pond.
Murday: Ralph Dietz of 24824 S Harlem indicates his interest in serving on the Planning Commission, we have
been communicating, may meet this week. Currently he is an engineer at the University of Chicago, retiring
and has time, would like to do something for the Township. Murday: Still want a few more members. Last
inquiry from me, regarding large acreage for sale. Massat & Hellriegel: Watson ground. Murday: Just
wondering in case there is a development purpose. That’s all. Nolan: Thanks Don.
HIGHWAY COMMISSIONER’S REPORT – Commissioner Massat: Done paving, done tar & chipping, just
working on drainage tiles, a lot of culverts to replace, we haven’t even got to. That’s about it. Nolan: How many
culverts you got to replace? Massat: 4 or 5 on Offner, 3 on Kuse, 2 on 80th. Nolan: Is that personal or cross
roads, and you have to rip up roads? Massat: Yep.
ASSESSOR’S REPORT – Nolan: Jane was unable to attend. She sent me a report, I forgot to bring it. My fault.
Newton: You want me to bring it up on my phone? What do you want, the report? Nolan: Yes, she sent a
report. I’ll give you a little, last day for appeals is October 27th, everything has to be done. She is just swamped
right now, I know that. I will forward her report to everybody. Newton: (looking in phone) Was it the September
2019 Assessor Report and expenses? Nolan: No it was last week, sent report to me.
TRUSTEE’S REPORT – Newton: Had one minor thing, I’ve been trying to get us the handbooks from TOI, I got
a text from them, she said, she just sent them.
SUPERVISOR’S REPORT – Nolan: I’m gonna pass because New Business is all pertaining to it anyways.
NEW BUSINESS – Nolan: Park Donation Fund, I forwarded you guys everything from Weber (accountant) and
also the attorney. We talked before about separating everything out from the Town Fund. Couple questions I
asked: General Assistance Fund being used for Will Ride, that, in their opinion is “not acceptable,” so that
cannot be done that way. Park Donation Fund, what can they be used for & what they can’t, and if they should
be separated from regular Town Fund. They said, “They should be separated.” Another question, about real
estate taxes. That property is farmed, we pay taxes on it. Can the money generated from that be used to pay
taxes? So, suggestion was also to move that Park Donations into a separate Fund. I believe Bill, back in your
days, you did have that separated. Wagner: Yes, I don’t know when it got unseparated. Nolan: When I took
over it was all in one place and just line itemed out. Any suggestions? It’s the proper way to do it, but the taxes
could be paid. Wagner: So the rent will go into the Park Fund, does it actually have to go into the Park Fund?
Nolan: Yes, because it is park land, no different than having as a bank account. Park donations sitting in the
bank collects interest, interest cannot be used for anything in Town Fund, has to remain in Park Donations.
Wagner: I just know the law is specific, the Park Donations can only be spent on property, I don’t recall it being
specific on anything else. Newton: Did you see this from George Mahoney (attorney)? Wagner: I don’t think I
did. Newton: This was his response. Nolan: “Restricted to general use and purpose which may be permitted
under County ordinance required. These include using the fund for the park, public open space, or recreation
opportunities within the Township. Payments cannot be used for non-park related purposes.” So, property
taxes would be park related. We’ve been paying out of Town Fund for I don’t know how long. So I’ll be
changing that out. Other thing, Capital Fund, we talked about putting money, it just really needs pre-approval of
Town Board. Starting a Township all Capital Fund. So, I think we need to outline what Capital Funds are for.
We have them sitting in a Town Fund, we called it for a building, so we have money sitting there, it needs to be
moved out of Town Fund. Hellriegel: It can’t sit in there? Nolan: It should not sit in there, it’s got to be brought
out separately, but we got to design it and how the board wants to approve it for. Newton: The creation of the
Capital Fund. Nolan: Thank you. Can you read that for me, mine was cut off. Newton: His response? Nolan:
Please, thank you. Newton: (reading attorney’s response) I view the creation of a Capital Fund account to be
part of the Township budgeting an approval process and within the purview of the Township Board, in our
opinion it does not need to be approved by the voters. The Township should have a plan for the possible uses
of those funds, which may include, for example, construction of a Town Hall or the development of a combined
Town Hall / Multi Use and Park Facility. Nolan: And I think we created a line item, before everything was
bulked into one place. I don’t think we actually designed how we wanted it. So I think going forward we need to
figure out how to word this up. Hellriegel: These are Capital Funds coming in for this? Nolan: It’s Capital Funds
when we do the budget, how we allocate money out. It’s just always been put in one place. That’s not a good
way. You had everything separated at one time. Wagner: We never had a Capital. Nolan: Right, correct.
Wagner: I fully agree it should be in a separate fund. Hellriegel: Yes, if we’re asking for it that way, it should be.
Nolan: I’ll ask him to draft up, how to word it. I’m assuming, as a board we’re still looking at it for a Town Hall.
Down the line. Wagner: Right. Hellriegel: Airport’s coming, so they say. Wagner: They’ve been saying since
“78.” Hellriegel: If they approve that exit off Eagle Lake Rd. that airport is coming. Massat: They appropriated
165 million for that. Nlan: So for Capital Fund, I will throw something up, or write it out, ask the lawyer to
approve it, wording wise, and send out to board. Get your guy’s opinion on it at next meeting. Newton: And
vote on it at next meeting? Nolan: Yeah, if that’s fair, we can always change wording at next meeting.
Nolan: Last thing, we have levies coming up, December we have to do levies, from Road District is one aspect,
from Township is different, from what we spent and everything else, I think we had a 2% increase if I’m not
mistaken. My suggestion, would be, and you guys all saw the budget and what we spent, and previous year.
That 224 we took in last year about 4000-4500 was General Assistance Fund, which we haven’t used since
i’ve been sitting here. We have like 30 grand in there, which hasn’t been touched, so levying for it, I’m not.
Wagner: Right. Nolan: So as we build this levy back up, or how we’re going to do this, going into 2020. It’s one
thing I don’t think we should levy for, General Assistance, right now. Hellriegel: You’re saying, leave it the
same? Nolan: Leave same for Township, minus the General Assistance. So, basically you’re saying about 224.
Hellriegel: Again, they say if you lower it you can’t get it back, so you don’t want to lower it. If you don’t want to
raise it then, levy for same thing as last year. Nolan: That’s what I’m saying, I think that’s where we had this
discussion last year bill, that’s why I don’t want to wait till last minute. Wagner: If you lower it to the point that it
lowers the tax rate, you can’t raise a tax rate without a referendum. Hellriegel: Yeah, you’d like to lower if not
using, but if you lower it, it gets you later. Nolan: That’s the discussions the board has to make on some of this
stuff. I know we look at long term too, just not for right now. Long term you don’t want to hurt the Township, in
15-20 years by doing something like this. Newton: Could we have like, what we did last year, and a column
proposal for coming year? So, we can see the difference or change? Nolan: One more time? Newton:
Compare the real numbers, not just around 2%. Actual percentage and the numbers? What we did last year,
and what we’re thinking this year? For 2020? Nolan: Ok, see that where the levies, I think skew us, you’re
projecting what you think is going to come in, you don’t have actual numbers until they come in. Am I wrong,
Bill? Wagner: Correct. Until April 1st. Nlan: That’s our dilemma, at times. You can take a good guess.
Hellriegel: That’s the reason you don’t want to lower it, they can even lower it more, they aren’t giving you what
you ask for sometimes. Wagner: You always estimate extremely high, then they lower to what we are legally
allowed to have. Newton: What did we ask , what was the figure last year? Nolan: The figure we asked for was
224 something. Don’t quote me on that exactly, that’s what I’m trying to say. 224 range and I want to say that
was only about 1% increase or 1.75% increase over or just say 2% over previous year. Hellriegel: And got it?
Nolan: When we went to levy we asked for 4.99 and got 2. Hellriegel: Ok. Nolan: Years previously, everyone
looked at 15% and still got 2, cause your asking for all that money coming in. Looking to see what direction to
kinda go on this. Hellriegel: So, you’d like to see some numbers in front of you? Newton: For our next meeting,
so we could see before we vote on it in December. Nolan: I got you, Ok. Wagner: It’s coming up fast. Nolan:
That’s why, if you don’t have conversations it sneaks up on you, that’s when mistakes happen. I want to be
proactive on this one. Put that back on Agenda for next month, conversation. We don’t have to make a
decision until December on this whole thing. Wagner: Kinda related to some of this, the info that Gearge
provided us about some of those funds, did George bill us for that? Nolan: If he hasn’t he will. Wagner:
Because, we also sent, looks like we sent Steve Weber $115 for his consulting with George? Nolan: Yes.
Wagner: Why do we do that? Nolan: Because, when you’re starting funds, I don’t think there’s anyone better in
the County than Weber, to be honest with you. Wagner: I understand, but if he needs legal help to do his job,
then why is he charging us for that? I mean we’re going to him as subject matter expert. Nolan: I went to the
attorney first. Wagner: Ok. Nolan: Let me rephrase some of this. Some of this was also Park District, which had
nothing to do with funding. So, there’s legal questions and then there’s accounting questions. Wagner: I still,
Nolan: Maybe I didn’t explain it right. Wagner: I’m still concerned about paying Weber for going to our attorney
to get an answer. I mean, we go to our attorney to get an answer. Nolan: Weber never went to our attorney.
Our attorney asked me if he could get in contact with our accountant. I said yes. Wagner: And he charged us
$115 (Weber) to do that. Nolan: Yes, which I, personally, have no problem with. Wagner: I don’t know. Coffey:
Would he have charged us, if it wasn’t the attorney that called him? If you would have called him, would he
have charged you? Nolan: I would assume when anyone calls, he would charge them. Murday: You’re talking
about 2 guys with separate disciplines. You’re talking one, an accountant, one an attorney, and you put their
heads together, and come up with the answer. To me, it makes perfect sense. The accountant’s not going to
give you legal advice, and the attorney’s not going to give you accounting advice. So, they put their heads
together and say, this is what we have to do. So, that one meets with accounting standards, and one meets
with legal standards. Wagner: I guess when I go to an accountant for accounting advice, he knows all the
legalities of the advice he’s giving and I shouldn’t have to go to an attorney, if my accountant knows what we
can legally do with the accounts. Murday: The accountant is not going to practice law. Wagner: Understand,
but he’s going to understand the law, so he knows how to do his accounting. He’s not a bookkeeper, he’s an
accountant. So, he should know what things we could legally do with accounts. Murday: But he’s never going
to give you an opinion, unless he knows, he has some kind of foundation on which he can protect himself. He’s
going to give you accounting information. If your accountant is giving you legal advice, then he’s overstepping
his bounds. An accountant gives you accounting advice. He may know how the law interacts or interplays with
the accounting function, but he’s not going to give you legal advice. Wagner: I understand. Murday: His
malpractice isn’t going to cover that. So, for malpractice purposes, I believe both of them confer, so that they
can come up with something together. So, the attorney has the accountant and his say, so he’s covered in that
aspect, and the accountant has talked to the lawyer, so he’s covered from his aspect. I see it all the time.
Interdisciplinary conferences to make sure you’re appropriately covered. If what they’re doing is making sure
our books, and our records are where they need to be then that’s worth $115. Nolan: Bill, I’ll be honest with
you, you’re talking about me moving $300,000 around, I want to get advice from a legal standpoint, and an
accounting standpoint. Wagner: I understand it’s not a whole lot of money, but I don’t feel like we should be
paying two people to come up with the same answer. Or, he should say, I think this is what you should do, and
we should be going to the attorney and say, “Is this legal?” Now that I know you had him call, so it’s kinda the
same thing. Nolan: Sorry, I wanted to double check everything. Wagner: Skip you as middleman, which is ok, I
understand better now. Nolan: Like going to doctor, and getting a second opinion. Wagner: yeah, but my
doctor is not going to charge me for the second opinion. Massat: That’s right. Wagner: Second opinion doctor
will charge you, and the second opinion doctor should not call my doctor to find out what he should say.
OLD BUSINESS – Nolan: I had Will Ride, cleared up with attorney. We can’t do that way with General
Assistance, just FYI, and Don was going to take over, and run this thing. Hellriegel: Nope. Wagner: How many
seats you have on that tractor? (laugh) Nolan: What if we vote on it? Wagner: Don’t miss a meeting. Nolan: As
soon as you don’t show up. Wagner: I make a motion (laughter)
COMMENTS – Schultz: Is 88th Ave a construction route? Massat: Huh? What? Is 88th Ave a construction
road? Schultz: Yeah. Massat: Sometimes, sometimes not, why? Schultz: All those trucks the other day.
Massat: They were going to a job for Green Garden Township. Schultz: They hurt that road. Massat: Yeah, ok.
Schultz: But you got a construction road they could have came up on, off of Center. Massat: Dralle That’s the
construction road, is Dralle. Schultz: But they didn’t use it. Massat: No, because it’s shorter straight 88th Ave to
Stuenkel, than to all the way down and around and back up Stuenkel. Schultz: So they hurt 88th Ave now?
Massat: It ain’t that bad. Schultza; Yeah it is. Massat: No different than what it was before. Schultz So the
people seen that, and a couple houses away, 2 days later, here comes all the semis haulin’ dirt in there.
Massat: Where did the dirt go? Schultz: I didn’t care. Massat: Well I know but, did you know where the dirt
went? Schultz: Sure. Massat: Cause I have bond on those people. Schultz: I know where it went, and the
house has been there for probably 50 years. Massat: Well then they don’t have a bond if house has been
there for 50 years. Schultz I walked out there when all the trucks were like a parade there, and you can see the
road moving under them. Massat: They all move Buddy. Schultz: And you know the guy from the County about
the water thing? Newton: Brian? Schultz: A private engineering firm drew it up, walked it up to County, Ok
looks good, and they never even looked at it. Then, Greg comes out and Bob knows Greg, he’s a worthless
piece of …Nolan: Don’t write that down. Coffey: I, Massat: S**t. I’ll say it for ya. Nolan: Don’t say it! Schultz: He
didn’t even get out of the car, yeah, this looks good. Massat: They’re useless there at County, they won’t do
nothing for you. Schultz: He said once County stamps it, right or wrong, it’s done. Newton: Bob, what is the
appeal process? Massat: Ask Bill, we went out there and had a meeting with them on your little episode, there
the plans show a 7ft berm. He has an 18ft berm, so we ask County what you gonna do? They ain’t gonna do
anything, we don’t care. If he ever decides for us to come and look at it maybe he can draw up a new plan and
show us that it’s 15ft high and we’ll accept it. Schultz: How does he get in office or how does he get his job?
Massat: Probably appointed, been there a long time. Schultz: Who would appoint him? Walsh? Massat: Oh,
Larry, I don’t know how those guys get their jobs to be honest with you. Schultz: He don’t deserve nothing, he’s
terrible. Massat: I run into that issue a lot, like with Bill. Wagner: Problem I have is there’s no ordinance against
it. No ordinance against, they allow it. Massat: But his plans show 7ft berm, he’s at 15ft berm, they say “So
what.” Wagner: No ordinance against 15ft berm so he’ll just submit another plan for later on and say it’s 15ft
and they’ll accept it. Schultz: So we can’t vote him out ever? Has he been there for life? Massat: Been there
long time. Wagner: Are there actually County engineers? It’s same thing, they just go by whatever engineer
they hire, that’s the plan they use. Schultz: But Greg is not an engineer, is he? Massat: I don’t think.Schultz:
Just a yes man? Massat: I believe so. Wagner: You would hope they have an engineer on staff, that would
look at these things and say yeah. Massat: I don’t even think they do them themselves anymore. Schultz: They
don’t. It’s on 30 an engineering firm, and when they do it , they walk it up there and Ok, they don’t even look at
it. Nolan: I’ll be honest, you remodel your house or addition, and this is going back 20 years. If you have
architect or engineer stamp, you walk into building department and they see a stamp, it’s done. Schultz: Oh, I
know. Nolan: I remodeled my house 20 some years ago and had architect stamp and they said “done.” I don’t
know if they don’t have resources or people, I don’t know. Strigow: That was the Building Department your
talking about. Schultz: What does he do? The Brian guy? Nolan: Land Use or is he Code Enforcement?
S Land Use. Massat: He’s on drainage. Newton: He’s been helpful to us as a board in the past, when we had
questions, like with gun club, and I have asked him, if this isn’t your thing, can you tell us who we should be
talking to? He’s usually pretty good about saying, “That’s not me, speak to so and so.” Schultz: There’s
nothing they gonna do about it. Newton: The supervisor came out? Greg? And said? Schultz: He said, “Yeah,
that’s fine.” Massat: I can tell you, I think your road gets 3 inches next year. Schultz: Huh? Massat: 3 inches of
pavement next year. I think it’s on the list. Schultz: To tell you the truth, Massat: They’re gonna move faster!
Schultz: I don’t care about that. With the way the water problem is, it still ain’t gonna stay longer and there’s
nothing you can do. If you put across the road now right there on Brockman’s field is just like a swamp, you
know what it smells like? Massat: Sewer. Schultz: And somebody gotta be running sewer there and y9ou know
what County says, “No, that’s ok.” Striggow: Used to have dye tablets if they thought they were running sewer
there. Schultz: They told everyone they were going to do it. Massat: Was cold patch good on Stuenkel Rd?
Schultz: I don’t know. Massat: You don’t go that way no more? Schultz: I never did go that way. Massata: I
thought you went 45 to Stuenkel. Schultz: Oh, yeah, needs couple more holes filled. Massat: Yeah, well, we
ran out that day. Nolan: We filled some. Schultz: One of your generous workers filled a little whole right in front
of my driveway. I’m so happy about that.
Striggow: Park Fund, how many dollars are we talking there? Nolan: Roughly, $35,000-$40,000. Striggow:
That’s what’s left out of Park District Donation Fund? Nolan: They never separated it though, all those dollars
over the years, it was all funded into Town Fund. When I took over, I went back through records I could find
and calculated what was owed to that fund, to be in there. They kept in the Town Fund. Striggow: Park District
money I’m talking about is from house building. Nolan: That’s all gon, I think when, Wagner: When we bought
the 30 acres. Nolan: They never took the money and separated it out from Park Fund line item. When I took
over, I tried to calculate as far back as I could go to put it in. Striggow: How many thousands are you planning
to put into Capital Fund? Nolan: I think $250,000, what are you thinking? Schultz: Are we ever going to have a
park? I don’t need one. Nolan: Here’s where you get caught up on this stuff. We live out in the country,