2019.07.08 Meeting Minutes
GREEN GARDEN TOWNSHIP
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 8, 2019
The regular meeting was called to order by Supervisor Nolan at 7:00 p.m. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Roll Call In attendance were Trustees Wagner, Standish, Newton, Hellriegel, Commissioner Massat, Supervisor Nolan, and Clerk Coffey. Clerk Coffey submitted the minutes of the Budget Hearing and Regular Meeting held June 26, 2019 as well as the Special Meeting held June 26, 2019. There was a motion to approve the Budget Hearing, Regular Meeting, and Special Meeting minutes as submitted by Trustee Wagner with a second by Trustee Hellriegel. Voice vote: Motion carried.
PUBLIC COMMENTSâ – None
PLANNING COMMISSION
â 2 matters before Planning Commission
â A-2 to A-1 located on Center Rd. – Tabled, need to discuss
â Special Use Permit approved by Planning Commission (4-0) for property located 24149 LaGrange Rd., previously zoned & approved by board as Industrial. Existing building being sold, Pleckham intends to build another building for his sewer & water company. Attorney Cass Wennlund spoke on behalf of buyer, the Special Use Permit is needed for buyer to rent & sell light and heavy equipment. Joe from United Rental states high volume rental shop, more specialized (less traffic). Wagner voices concern regarding how it will look. Mr. Wennlund responds, County has regulations for screening. Majority of it being high end trailers with methodical placement. Mr. Pleckhamâs new building will be to the north, using the existing drive. Case did not have to go before Frankfort. Wagner asks if we can add stipulation for berm or trees for appearance? Wennlund states screening in plan goes beyond what County calls for. Standish asks if it will be taxed Commercial? Will be taxed for use.
â There was a motion to accept Planning Commissionâs recommendation for Special Use Permit by Trustee Hellriegel with a second by Trustee Newton. Roll Call: Hellriegel, yes; Newton, yes; Wagner, yes; Standish, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried 5-0.
â A-2 to A-1 located 24018 Center Rd. Owner wants to consolidate 2 parcels equalling 9.8 acres citing easement taken would have given him 10. County concerned there will be no limitation on wildlife. Applicant wants pole barn for storing hay, currently using trailers (neighbors displeased). County suggests Variance. Applicant agrees to table. Applicant went back to County to renew his Temporary Use. Countyâs thought was, he would continue with the Map Amendment. Don thinks Planning Commission will deny, Variance better. County interested in the Boardâs input. May appear before Board in August. Supervisor Nolan states if applicant comes before us he wants him to bring the permits for driveway & barn located in back.
â Nothing for August at this time.
HIGHWAY COMMISSIONERâS REPORTâ – None
TRUSTEEâS REPORTâ – None
SUPERVISORâS REPORT â- None
NEW BUSINESS Appointment of Township Attorney, Wagner: Duties? Nolan: Representing Township other firm members to assist. I thought I sent everyone contracts, questions, and amendments. Rate $225 an hour, law clerks $125 an hour, & assistants $50 an hour. Standish: Is he coming to every meeting? Nolan: If we retain, he will attend August meeting, answer questions, concerns, rules, & procedures. Wagner: Doesnât know if he wants to appoint, having not met with them. Hellriegel: Concurs. Newton: Why didnât he come & introduce himself? Nolan: He will come after appointment. Wagner: Always had good luck with TOI attorneys for free, those are the people that know township law. Township is different than municipality, might be better using TOI instead of paying 225/hr or paralegal 125/hr. Newton: Cheaper than Road District attorney hourly rate I saw. I think the stack of things weâre sitting on right now, we canât just pick up a phone and call someone for free. Nolan: Apologizes, thought he sent info to everyone. Wagner: I understand there are some legal issues, I donât know if we as a board have articulated those legal issues enough to say this is what weâre looking at, now turn over to the attorney. Other words, I donât want an attorney running the Township. I want the board to run Township, using attorney advice. If we have a question we have to articulate, so he knows exactly what our question is. Maybe if we do that well enough, we send it over to TOI, see if they give an answer off the top of their head, without having to pay $225 or $125 to research it. Standish: I have good luck with Brian Smith, calls back within 1-2 hours, next day at the latest. Newton: If we had visited this some time ago, got on the ball, and been in contact with TOI from the get go, and didnât have a back log of issues and questions, I could see that. I think weâre past point of picking up the phone & calling for free advice. We need someone who can come to the next meeting, explain to us as a board, what we need to do. Wagner: Thatâs where your problem is going to be, attorneyâs rely on paralegals to do research on what is really legal. You put a guy here, heâs gonna take a pretty good guess at it. If you want a solid answer, better off letting him go back & research. Newton: I donât expect an answer right here. Wagner: What are our top issues requiring legal advice? Newton: This resolution, going forward with accounts to be set up, transfers, funds, how weâre moving money around and weâre not sure. That needs to be addressed with attorney. Wagner: so I think we need to articulate what we intended to do, what we did, send off to attorney and say âDid we do it legally?â Newton: Agreed. Wagner: Maybe the first attorney we send to is TOI & try to get free advice. Hellriegel: Weâre already paying them. Newton: Ok, who will come and sit with us as a board? I think weâre making it too simple wishing it away, to get free advice. Wagner: Youâre making it too easy on us, weâre not taking responsibility if we just want somebody to come in and do our jobs. We need to articulate what our questions are, what problems we think we have and then send it off to them. They donât have to be here to do that. Newton: They donât have to be here at every meeting and answer our questions on the spot. I would assume they wouldnât assume they would answer all of my questions, of course Iâd rather he look up, research, coming back with a solid answer, not just tell us what we want to hear. What he thinks. I just donât think itâs in our best interest to make a phone call to someone, one of us relay to the board. Wagner: Iâm not saying a phone call, if we have this much of a problem, we need to articulate in writing and send it off. Get answer in writing, phone calls wonât cut it. Newton: What township in this county doesnât have an attorney? Coffey: Actually, TOI, when I contacted them said âWhere the hellâs your attorney? Wagner: Did they? I know Iâve contacted them before and Russ has. Nolan: They wonât represent us. Wagner: No, they wonât. Newton: Itâs not the same thing. Nolan: They wonât put in writing. Wagner: Theyâll advise us what laws and statutes are. Newton: Then itâs open to our interpretation. Wagner: Well, then we can take that to attorney and say this is what we did, hereâs the law, are we good? I just donât want attorney to run the township. Newton: I donât like giving answers, assuming weâre doing it right and come back that we didnât do it right. We should ask for advice. Wagner: Then we table it until we get advice. I donât think we have to bring in an attorney and pay $225 to ask to his face. Newton: I donât know 1 township that doesnât have an attorney. Wagner: Do they come to every meeting? Newton: No, I never said I thought they should. Nolan: I donât think this is about that, first thing, we have to have an attorney, currently we do not. Wagner: I agree. Nolan: Thatâs what this is. How we utilize him is at the boards discretion. Rules, regulations and how to use him, but we need to have one. We havenât had one in 6 years. Standish: How many wrong decisions have we made? Wagner: Youâve already asked attorney for this (resolution) does this cost us money? Nolan: Yes. Wagner: Are your happy with this? Newton: No, because itâs not right. Wagner: Thereâs your problem, why pay attorney to do this? Newton: Iâll tell you, go back and read all the minutes, they are contradictory, and what I have been told to my face has been very contradictory on this $220,000 loan. Standish: Thatâs the name of the game called lawyers, everything is contradictory. Newton: Has Road District made 1 re-payment to the township? Bob? Massat: What? Newton: Have you made 1 re-payment on this $220,000 loan? Massat: We were in the course of the Townhall maintenance. Newton: So, No? Massat: And doing maintenance on that. Nolan: The answer is no. It was just put into the budget for this year, that we just passed. Newton: There should have been 2 payments by today, so this resolution isnât right, if itâs going to be paid off by 2027. Weâre going to have to increase terms of payments. Nolan: Correct, Cherie to be honest with you, payments are dictated by the board, through the budget. Wagner: Right. Nolan: So you could come back next year or amend budget and say we want $50,000, or $75,000. Loan has to be paid by 2027. Newton: Those terms need to be spelled out, and Iâm not seeing it in the resolution. Do you know what Iâm saying? Re-payment before November 2027. Nolan: Correct. Newton: Can we get a piece of paper, promissory note, something to that effect? (Nolan hands Cherie promissory note) Newton: Does it take into consideration heâs already made a payment? Nolan: Nope, promissory note has to be paid by 2027. Newton: So it will be budgeted each year, what he will pay back, projected? Nolan: Correct. Wagner: The way you can make that demand is donât pass the budget, if you donât pass the budget you get no more money after June. Nolan: Sorry Cherie, I thought I sent all this to you. Newton: Maybe I have, I do. So, $220,000 loan, did attorney see copy of check, voucher, or payment? Did he just go with what you said, the check was only for $210,000 something, right? Nolan: either way, loan still for $220,000. Newton: What was the $9,000 difference? Nolan & Massat: Trade in. Newton: And we have all that documented for posterity? If iâm signing this, I want it attached, everything that went along with this agreement. Then we wonât have this discussion again. Nolan: Ok. Going back to lawyer now. Wagner: Whatâs question posed to attorney? Weâre going to an attorney, to ask him what? What do we want him to answer? Nolan: Question came up, you cannot loan money to Road District. Coffey: Thatâs not true,âtransferâ not loan. Nolan: There is a statute that says we can do that, loan. Massat: (Inaudible) Newton: Stop that, Itâs rude. Hellriegel: So we can? Nolan: Yes, Bills resolution originally stood, thereâs no problem with the resolution originally put forth. Resolution we have now has more teeth in it, also has statute in there. Coffey: So it was legal? Nolan: Yes. Coffey: We all know the loan was legal, it was legal to transfer? Nolan: Yes, the loan. Coffey: They are two different things. Nolan: Ok, correct. Coffey: I understand the last meeting they said the loan money, there was nothing wrong with that. Nolan: Correct. Coffey: The statute states we canât transfer the way we did. Nolan: Correct. Wagner: And we didnât transfer it, we loaned it. Nolan: No, instead of writing a check. Coffey: They transferred. Nolan: I transferred money and didnât write a check to do so. Wagner: Electronic funds transfer? Nolan: Yes. Wagner: Thatâs Ok. Coffey: Thatâs what Iâm asking. Wagner: It doesnât matter, the mechanics of getting the money from one place to another. Just transferring monies levied from one account to another levied account. That you cannot do. You can loan it, you just canât give it. Newton: Did we vote on it prior to the transfer? Nolan: Thatâs where we come up with whether it was a discussion or a vote. Coffey: It was never brought up. Newton: Itâs not in the minutes. Wagner: Ok, so itâs not in the minutes and weâve beaten a dead horse enough. What do we need to do to rectify it? Itâs not in the minutes, what do you want? Nolan: Everybody on this Board signed off on the Resolution in 2019. Wagner: Which was an attempt to correct the omission in the past. Newton: Right. Wagner: Youâre still not satisfied, so what else do you need? Nolan: So, everyone signed off on the resolution there was no problems. I donât know what else to tell everybody, you signed, you signed, etc. Noone forced anyoneâs arm. We put it up for vote, resolution Bill wrote, we put together, everyone voted. Newton: So the resolution Bill did, was it identical to this? And we did not have a promissory note. Iâve been asking for months for a payment schedule of some sort. Wagner: Thatâs what you want, thatâs missing is a payment schedule? Are we going to be flexible on payment schedule, or do you not want to be flexible on a payment schedule? Newton: I think not paying for 2 years doesnât look like we are staying on top of what weâre supposed to be doing. Wagner: Ok. Murday: May I offer a suggestion, sounds like I understand concern, not putting somebody as Township attorney without meeting that person. I think that someone who wants to be the Township attorney should be here presenting him or herself, explaining why it is they have the background and experience. Ask if familiar with township law vs. municipality. Hire somebody and say, look, here are the facts, here are the documents, this is what happened. I hear everyone saying thatâs lawful, thatâs this. With all due respect I donât know, if I was a board member, I would like the comfort in knowing Iâve paid someone whoâs an expert in this, to tell us whatâs right or wrong. If itâs wrong, this is what we need to do to rectify it. Then follow that advice, because youâve now paid for that advice, and from the boardâs perspective, youâre protected. If the 7 of you looked at the statute, you can come up with different interpretations of what that statute is. Pay the guy who does this for a living, who will tell you what case law is, interpreting that statute. As opposed to people reading it and trying to figure out what it means. To me, money well spent from township perspective to alleviate concerns. Spend the money, you donât have someone sitting here every meeting, you have me, free legal advice. Bring that person in, have them look at it and say, this is what you need to do. Ducks in a row, tied in a bow, and put it away. Wagner: I think Jim did that. Nolan: Yeah. Wagner: He did exactly that. Murday: Sounds like there are still questions people have. $225 is reasonable. Newton: Thatâs low, attorney I work for is $300/hr. Striggow: Is that attorney versed in township law? Nolan: Yes. Striggow: What are his credentials? Where has he worked? Murday: Mahoney is very knowledgeable to my recollection, has he farmed this out? Nolan: He saw & signed everything. Newton: Who is Marron? It was signed by Marron Mahoney. Coffey: Son? Striggow: Thatâs his kid, thatâs not George, thats why $225. Murday: Just make sure youâre not getting bait & switch, youâre not getting George. Newton: You would have thought, his son would have introduced or said my father relayed this. Nolan: He sent everything and talked to me on the phone. He has 8 townships, including housing authorities, and Frankfort itself. Newton: If nothing else we need to have an attorney. Wagner: I agree. Newton: Iâm not saying Iâm going to pick up the phone and pepper him with questions, but something this big going on this long, and interpretation, that statute we can all interpret a different way. We need attorney to say this. Wagner: Itâs not so much the statute, you donât agree to the terms. Newton: What terms? Wagner: The payment terms. Newton: That it will be paid back in 10 years, thatâs the only terms we have. Wagner: And you donât agree with that? If all we need to do is discuss that, change resolution and then have him approve that. Jimâs already been through give the stuff to attorney, came up with these things, but doesnât articulate what our concerns were as a whole board. Thatâs what my problem is, if you have a concern, letâs air it out and then turn over to attorney. Have him know what weâre looking for. Striggow: Does the attorney interview everyone on the board? The question that came up, who talked to him? Jim, did you? Nolan: I did. Striggow: I think the board , entire board is responsible for what happens. It takes more than 1 guy dictating his version of what has to happen here, and whatâs going on. I think that resolution should have come forward from the entire board. Because right now if thatâs not right, itâs your fault Jim. Nolan: It goes back to âItâs fine!â Everyone keeps going back & forth. Standish: We didnât do anything wrong, we still havenât done anything wrong. What weâre doing, figure out, itâs supposed to be 10 years, supposed to be able to âon demandâ tell Bob to give back all the money. Thatâs what I was told by Brian Smith. So I go along with fact. Ok you wanna find out everything, ask attorney. I donât see any need to buy attorney for the rest of our life. Coffey: Weâre not buying. Standish: No, weâre renting. Newton: He only gets paid for what he does. Wagner: I guess we disagree to use him. Newton: We vote once we have to agree to use him, that way we have one, we might not talk to him for a month, maybe 8 months. Standish: So he doesnât send us a bill? Newton: We only get billed for time he spends. Standish: So heâs just attorney on call? Weâre not paying him? Murday: Like my clients, I donât send them a bill unless I work for them. I donât send them a bill because Iâm their attorney. I bill because Iâve done something for them. Even if you have a retainer youâre not paying somebody for privilege of having attorney, they work to get paid. So what youâre doing today is just appointing, and if you retain him to do something, now you have an attorney. Standish: So for our pick is this Mahoney? Thereâs no problem if youâre gonna call him & he sends you a bill later, and itâs just for the 1 time thing & we donât have anything for 3 years he doesnât get paid? Newton: Right. Standish: Sounds like getting your car fixed. You pay for what you get done. Why are we arguing? Nolan: Russ I donât know. Newton: So what are you thinking? At least meet him, have him interview us as well? Wagner: What I just heard, Iâd be fine to vote for him now, but I donât want us to just say hereâs the thing go fix it. I want us to articulate, what do we think is wrong with this? Why not vote for it now? Murday: As the attorney, here are the thing you make sure you do, make sure you give him everything, not the things you want him/her to see, not the recollection that is the colored recollection you have. As I tell my clients, I want to know everything. What I want to know more wholly is the bad stuff, so I can figure out what we need to do. Donât sugar coat things, donât cherry pick things, as an attorney I want everything. Newton: I would think heâd want to see all our paperwork. Murday: I will say this, Iâve worked with George Mahoney in the past, very competent. Nolan: He knows municipal, township, state, and everything else with whole staff behind him. My personal opinion, no brainer. Pay him as we use him, I donât get it. Coffey: Can I ask a question? Are we disputing the fact we need a township attorney? Or are we disputing something we need to discuss with him later? So no one is opposed to voting for one? Wagner: Correct. Nolan: Thatâs whole different issue altogether,
going forward, we have to put in rules, what we want, not disagreeing, but we have to have an attorney. Wagner: I just want to make it clear, I donât want to pay for an attorney, and say hereâs everything we got. Nolan: We have to be clear of what we want. Coffey: I think thatâs what Cherie was stating. Nolan: I think so.
â Trustee Wagner made a motion to accept Mahoney and his firm as Township Attorney. Supervisor Nolan asked for a second. (Newton asked Hellriegel âStaring contest?â) Trustee Newton seconded the motion. Roll Call: Wagner, yes; Newton, yes; Standish, yes; Hellriegel, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried. 5-0. Vote for compensation for Attorney. Wagner: Do we really have a say in that? Nolan: Yep. I was instructed by attorney thatâs how you do this. Wagner: Ok. Can we lower them a little bit and vote? Nolan: $225/hr, paralegals at $125/hr, and assistants at $50/hr. Can I have a motion? Newton: On compensation.
â Trustee Hellriegel made a motion to accept compensation. (Stating,âStaring contest Cherieâ) There was a second to the motion by Trustee Standish. Roll Call: Hellriegel, yes; Standish, yes; Wagner, yes; Newton, yes; Nolan, yes. Motion carried 5-0. Vote on resolution amending Resolution 2019-01. Newton: I have a question, did you forward to Mahoney the resolution we did January 14, 2019? Did he see a copy of that? Nolan: Yes. Newton: Does he have a copy of paperwork? Check voucher, trade-in, the difference between the $220,000 and $210,000? Does he have everything? Nolan: He has a copy of voucher, check, and I believe bill of trucks? Newton: Ok. Nolan: Iâm almost positive I copied everyone on that. One thing I will tell you, this is on old one we all signed, says Green Garden Township Road District agreed to make annual payment each year during last month of the fiscal year in amount determined & budgeted by Green Garden Township Board of Trustees. So when you look at how itâs written, we go through budgets and determine how much he pays. Newton: I know but the transfer happened in 2017. In November of 2027 is wrapped up? Wagner: I can read it. (Bill read Resolution 2019-01 Amended) See attached. Newton: Does the attorney know that this was not voted on? Nolan: I told him I had not seen it in the minutes and it probably more than likely was not voted on, the original one. Newton: So if we sign this, even because that wasnât right, this makes it all right according to the attorney? Nolan: The last resolution makes it Ok, all this has is more teeth in it, for on demand. Striggow: So thereâs no annual payment, unless itâs in the budget? Nolan: Has to be in the budget Monroe. When you look back youâre gonna say for whatever reason Road District comes up short one year, we may pass him at making a payment. May come back following year $200,000 over and take $40,000. Thatâs something the Board decides, weâre the ones doing the budget. Thatâs philosophy on it. Hellriegel: So we canât ask for payment schedule, cause it would be budgeted every year. Newton: To be paid back in 10 years. Hellriegel: So Road District Commissioner needs to budget every year. Nolan: We have to approve budget every year,if we donât like the payment, we donât have to sign off on his budget. Hellriegel: If he budgets $30,000 a year it gets paid off before. Nolan: Yes board has to approve. Newton: So why was there talk in the minutes heâs paid $20,000? Where did that come from? See why Iâm hesitant? Nolan: Itâs got to be in the budget and we didnât pass a budget. Coffey: But this was done in 2017. Nolan: Yes, but it wasnât in the 2018 budget, but it is in the 2019 budget. Wagner: I think we have to concede on January 14, 2019, we admitted not having all our ducks in a row. That was our best effort at that time to put all our ducks i a row, the only thing lacking was the demand. Nolan: Yes, that was it. Wagner: Now
is there a reason not to move forward? Newton: Reading the attorneyâs letter, he says go ahead, but I donât know if he knew the other stuff. Wagner: Russ you made original motion to accept the resolution, did you want to make the motion to accept the amendment?
â Trustee Standish made a motion to accept the amendment, with a second by Trustee Wagner. Roll Call: Standish, yes; Wagner, yes; Hellrigel, yes; Newton: If this is final, final from the attorney and this is what he says Iâll vote yes. I guess if we have to have an amended, amended weâll do that. We can amend the Resolution in the future if need be, is that correct? Nolan: Yes, you can always amend it. Nolan, yes. Motion carried. 5-0. Nolan: I want to have a discussion on CPA handling financial tasks, managing outgoing monies, vendor payments, and payroll processing instead of doing it on our own. I want to bring it to accountant, have him do payroll, all vendors, vouchers, everything. I have some prices from him, basically costing us doing payroll also. $313 a month which is $4.55 a voucher, annual cost about $3700, $3756. Newton: Whatâs the budget right now $4,000-$4,500? Nolan: $15,000 for accounting services. Newton: Youâre estimating it at what? Day to day? Nolan: $3756 yearly. Standish: Howâs that square with Sue and signing your name? Newton: Same way. Nolan: Same process. For you guys basically seamless, walk in here sign off on bills like you always did. Voucher statements, bank books, whole nine yards. Hellriegel: So weâre paying someone $3600 a year for how many checks a year? Jim, you have 10 checks, Bob has 40. Nolan: This is for both. Hellriegel: Ok, isnât that what we pay you for? Bobâs got somebody that does his work, your budget is for someone to do, you know, to do the checks. Shouldnât we keep this in the township? Shouldnât you see everything, instead of just sending it off? Newton: Well he wouldnât be getting reimbursed for that any longer. Hellriegel: But he already gets it. His pay is to be the Supervisor, and do township stuff. Newton: You get paid separate though, right per year? Hellriegel: Bob is the Road District Commissioner and gets paid to do Road District stuff, youâre just spending money to do things. Coffey: Weâre also paying someone else to help with finances. Newton: Itâs not just that. Hellriegel: But youâre already doing that, but adding to it. Newton: He (Jim) gets paid to do it, Penny gets paid to do it. Hellriegel: Correct. Massat: As the secretary. Hellriegel: As the secretary. Newton: I get that, how does Penny get paid to do the townâs? Hellriegel: She donât, Jim does. Coffey: No. Wagner: Technically Penny does do it. Coffey: She gets paid for that too. Hellriegel: Ok, but I donât see taking the checkbooks, or register for writing checks away from us. Face forward, you see every bit. Newton: The bills arenât going to go directly to CPA, right, obviously. Jim still gets them in the mail, Bob still gets them in the mail. Nolan: Bring to the accountant, make sure everything is right. Let me tell you something, weâve been doing it this way for 8 years before I was here. How come I still have problems with the IRS from 2015 then? Hellriegel: That was previous guy. Nolan: Doesnât matter though, thatâs how mistakes happen. Certified CPA doing your stuff, that knows government really well, makes common sense. Wagner: There could also be division here, separating basic bookkeeping from CPA work. When you hire a CPA company youâre not really getting a CPA doing the work, your getting a bookkeeper going to do all that for you. Maybe, to keep us out of the biggest headache, payroll taxes and send those off to the accountant to deal with. Nolan: 941âs. Wagner: Yes, thatâs what my wife does, my wife does her own payroll and she has 35 employees. She pays weekly payroll taxes, she prints out her report and sends off to accountant. They pay all payroll taxes. I share Donâs concern. Hellriegel: Iâm sorry, I mean you know Bob pays his bills, Jim you pay your bills. If your issue is payroll taxes I can see that. Nolan:
Don to be honest with you Bob doesnât pay his bills, I pay his bills. Hellriegel: Youâre picking on me now. Nolan: Iâm not trying to pick on you. Hellriegel: Youâre getting nit picky on what Iâm {….}. I just think weâre giving too much of the township away. Murday: I would think the flip side to that is youâre going to an independent and relying on someoneâs expertise. Yeah, youâre divulging yourself of responsibilities youâve had in the past, but youâre giving it to someone who is a totally objective person, who is going to do things by the book, because thatâs what they get paid to do. Most importantly in my mind, youâre buying protection. Same thing buying a lawyer. You hire a lawyer, follow his advice, and if theyâre wrong, then you have recovery against them, you have malpractice. Same thing with the accountant. You say âhandle thisâ and if something happens with the IRS or something goes off the rails, you turn to the accountant, CPA and say âguess what? You have to fix it.â So it relieves that burden from the township and it gives the appearance of objectivity too. I donât know whether price is fair or not, but to me itâs money well spent. At that point in time there is no appearance of impropriety, because everything is out of your hands. Itâs in someone elseâs hands, they take care of it, so there canât be any second guessing or what about this, what about that. Even today, youâre obviously unaware of who was paying what on behalf of who. Now, you give it to someone and say, you donât have to do it forever, but maybe you do it and see how it goes. You can say, maybe, this hasnât really helped us at all and pull it back, itâs not as if you lose it forever. You can certainly fire people as easily as you hire them. Striggow: I take opposite side of this, I agree with Don & Bill. If 941âs are filed timely you ainât gonna have a problem with the IRS, thatâs where the problem lies. You should get them done timely. If she (Bills wife) could do 35 employees, and I have a few of my own, if youâre late youâre gonna be getting paid for it back until this gets straightened out. In 2015 if this happened and you were all on the board, then something fell through the cracks, didnât get done timely. You pay for that for a long time. I think day to day is good. I agree with Bill, I think, let that report go to a CPA. I think you give up some of your duties then what the hell do we need you guys for? Thatâs what you get paid for. Thank you. Wagner: I think township ordinances say you have to have a voucher, you canât make a payment without a voucher. Weâd have to implement voucher system and hand it over to an accountant. Striggow: Isnât that what you have now, vouchers? Wagner: Voucher and check print out on same page. Striggow: So when you sign a voucher, does it tell you what your buying? Wagner: No, it pretty much tells you who youâre paying it to, general idea. Striggow: How do you know what youâre paying for? Wagner: Well all the bills coming through now, have the receipt attached to the voucher. Striggow: So you do know? Wagner: You do know, we sign the receipts at a board meeting. Hellriegel: I just think we should keep the boardâs hand in it. If the payroll taxes are that much we should try that for a start. Just me speaking out. Nolan: $4,000 and you guys are gonna argue over $4,000? Wagner: Does that include doing all payroll, filings, and everything? Nolan: You were already paying for payroll filing. Wagner: So it doesnât include that? Nolan: You were paying that. These laws change all the time, you know as well as I do, the laws change on a record basis, and weâre dealing with a million bucks. Writing checks every single day, no different than the loan shit that happened. Excuse my language. Iâm sorry, it (loan) was on the wrong vouchers, the vouchers werenât signed right. We never went through and looked back. That doesnât happen with a CPA. Wagner: It does happen with CPA, who do you think is writing the vouchers? We are, you are, your writing voucher and sending to CPA. Nolan: No, no, no, youâre handing the thing, heâs pulling it all up. Wagner: No. Nolan: $4.50 a voucher. Wagner: You have to look at, he doesnât write vouchers, you do. Nolan: He prints it all out, does everything, vouchers & everything. Wagner: You have to present him with a voucher to write a check. Nolan: A bill. Wagner: No, a voucher, and we used to have 2 part forms of vouchers. I remember everything was paper, then you had to go and write the checks based on vouchers. Murday: Is there money in the budget earmarked for somebody to do this right now? Is the $4,000 cost or is it a savings up for something someone is no longer doing? Nolan: Itâs a wash. Murday: So itâs not an expense? Nolan: Itâs a wash. Iâve told you guys before this, Iâm not comfortable writing out all the checks on a regular basis. No offense Bill, itâs your program, that program crashes, weâre S.O.L. I brought this up to you before, Iâm not yelling at you, itâs already $4,000 weâre already spending. Wagner: Itâs not as easy as saying give all bills to accountant and theyâll write them. Itâs much more complex than that. Nolan: Ok. Hellriegel: You say itâs $4,000. Bushong: I used to be executive director for a chamber of commerce, I did all payroll, I did all bills, but I did have an accountant, a CPA that oversaw what I did. So he didnât do data entry or issue checks, but he did scrutinize me. If he saw anything at all that was kinda amiss, he would question me about it. Which was good because it gave my board the comfort that we had a CPA checking everything I was doing and thatâs what this kind of provides us. Wagner: But, how does a CPA check, I think thatâs our job as a board of Township Trustees to sign off on those bills. Thatâs kinda our check. Nolan: Which you guys would. Wagner: Can a CPA really determine whether a bill should be paid or not? I understand you come up with questions for him. You say hey, we want to do this transfer. Bushong: I donât think thatâs what theyâre doing. I donât think theyâre determining what bills need to be paid, I think they are over seeing it from an accounting standpoint. Hellriegel: But theyâre just paying them, if heâs issued a voucher, theyâre just paying them. Bushong: But you guys are still doing your same job, just like you are now. I donât see it really being any different. We just have a third party out there thatâs a CPA thatâs overseeing the process. Wagner: If heâs a CPA maybe he ought to approve them too for us, just being facetious. Hellriegel: Jim, you threw out âjust $4,000â I work my ass off for $4,000. I donât think itâs just. Nolan: Don, Iâm already paying $4,000 to have him process regardless right now, so itâs a wash for us. Iâve told this board before, either cut the taxes or do something right with the money. I said it last year and year before that. Cut the budgets, do something. Wagner: Thatâs off topic, whatâs $4,000 being spent for now? Nolan: Penny processes all of our bills. Wagner: And she gets paid $4,000? Massat: I think itâs $3,000. Nolan: Itâs $3,600. Hellriegel: $4,000 is just a number? Nolan: $36 something. Wagner: For $3,700 theyâll do all that plus the payroll filings? Nolan: They already do payroll filing. Wagner: Is $3,700 in addition to what heâs getting paid now to do payroll filings? Nolan: Payroll filings are $189 every 3 months, I believe, we also paid him last year $4,500-$4,600 for our AFR. Wagner: Ok. Striggow: Whoâs the CPA you use? Nolan: Steve Weber, he was the County Treasurer knows government very well. Coffey: He was the auditor for 8 years. Nolan: I donât think youâll find anyone more qualified, be honest with you, in this county. Standish: Is there a lag time from when we sign bills to when he gets it? Nolan: It all needs to be worked out, discussions. Iâll be honest bills are not going to come on Saturday and be paid Monday. Thatâs no different than any other business. Massat: Thatâs problem I have, a lot of times you get bill on Friday or Saturday, and if you donât pay, then you get a late charge. If Penny gets on Saturday, she makes out a voucher for Board Meeting on Monday. With this system, if I get bills on Friday or Saturday theyâre gonna have to wait an extra month before they get paid. Theyâre gonna charge you a late charge, instead of getting paid Monday. Newton: They will work on terms with you. Massat: No, I get late charges. Newton: If you work with them, they can be avoided, Iâve worked in accounting. Hellriegel: We still have to approve the bills. Newton: We do, we will. Hellriegel: Itâs a month before, even Jimâs bills, itâs a month before theyâre presented at board meeting. Wagner: Thatâs kinda always been a problem with utility bills too. You go ahead and pay them anyway. Newton: I know what youâre saying. Coffey: How do you do the ACHâs then? Wagner: True, probably illegal, how does IRS or State of Illinois collect payroll taxes? Same way. Nolan: They say we have to cut checks for everything, but State of Illinois wonât let you pay taxes by check, you have to do online. By the laws they wrote, it doesnât work. Itâs a double edged sword, youâre fighting all the time. Thatâs why Iâd rather have an attorney that knows what heâs doing, an accountant, that knows what heâs doing. Going back some years the last accountant we had quit. Wagner: But Jim, it doesnât matter, it was bad accounting practices. Hellriegel: Youâre going backwards. Nolan: Iâm not going backwards, but Iâm not repeating the past either. Wagner: Thatâs the key. I totally agree with making future easier and identifying those problems like payroll taxes, it is a big headache and problem, get rid of that. Nolan: Some of these things you canât do anymore, gets to a point, the laws are changing. Monroe, I know you do your own thing, thatâs great, how many people here have been audited? (Several hands raised). I donât want to put township in that predicament. Striggow: We know you better than that Jim, you wouldnât do that. Nolan: Itâs a wash. Striggow: What you going to do give up your payroll funding and put toward other thing? Nolan: Iâm paying $4,000 now, just doing same thing. You know what Iâm doing differently? Iâm driving to accountants and handing him everything, explaining, he prints checks, makes sure everthing is in right categories, and I come back a couple days later, pick up vouchers and come back. Thatâs what I do now. Striggow: (Jokingly) Maybe Penny donât want to do it anymore for $4,000 (Cheap ***) (laughter). Nolan: Not up for vote, just discussion.
OLD BUSINESS â- Will Ride
â Overall less than $3,000 a year cost (Hellriegel)
â Budget $2,000 & we sign Authorization for people (Standish)
â Budget 20 rides/month, 60 day out, not up for vote, put on August agenda (Nolan) â Can always amend budget, What fund? Township Fund, vote in August (Nolan) Wagner: Newspaper asked about MFT, probably could use some clarification. The reason we donât show as Revenue every year in our budget is because we donât get the money from the state, the money goes to the county. The county will give it to us when we ask for it. If we have a project going on, then weâll tell the county. Weâll budget MFT, weâll budget say, $1600 MFT money and get money from the county. Itâs kind of goofy, but the reason we donât budget is they donât have money in our accounts and it is not a levied amount. Weâve been advised not to budget MFT. Striggow: I thought there was always a line item for MFT. Wagner: If Bob decides heâs going to do a project and use MFT, Striggow: How do you do that? Wagner: You let it build up until you get enough to do a paved road, then you hit the county. County will reimburse you. You send all your bills to the county, and they will reimburse. Nolan: They might, they can deny it. Massat: We donât even get the bills, they go straight to the county. Nolan: For reimbursement. Wagner: When Bob sends all bills to county, they review and reimburse. We call it MFT Reimbursement. Newton: Do you get a letter from the State or County? Massat: When we bid a job, itâs all handled through county. They do the engineering, bid letting, they write the check, and their engineers are out on job site. We basically have nothing to do with it, all handled through
county. And do I get monthly statement? Newton: Does the county say we have X amount of money for you? Massat: Once a year they tell you how much is in your fund. May vary, State may say we need X amount of money and cut their budget in half. Schultz: Does it accumulate? Massat: Yeah, it does accumulate. They handle all that, I donât get nothing. Chris Russel (Vedette)l: Usually they allocate by population of taxing district. Massat: Based on your miles. Russell: Thatâs how they do in village, not sure on township. Massat: Based on miles within township, some townships have 30 miles, 20 miles, so theirs may be $4,000 a year, a month. You have 80 miles in township you can get $7,000 a month from state. We donât get it, it goes to county. Newton: They will be making payment to every township, every Road District with this new âIncentiveâ itâs going to be a lot of money, a one time thing, sizable from what I hear. Massat: I havenât heard anything about how much money, and that isnât gospel yet. Striggow: So on prior budgets was that a live number that we had? That came back from the state, we had $60,000 from MFT, was that a real number? Nolan: What that is, is money heâs looking to see if he can be reimbursed, if youâre doing $100,000 in stone for a road, you may be able to get back $20,000 in reimbursement. So really youâre spending $80,000, but youâre budgeting $100,000. If the county signs on it, you can get 20 grand back on it. Striggow: I guess without line item in there, it doesnât look like weâre applying for it. Coffey: So is the amount you use 1 year to the next, what you have received from the prior year? Wagner: The amount we show in budget is just how much of that money has accumulated at county, that we intend to spend this year. So if you donât have a big project, you may not spend any of that MFT money in 1 year. You may have enough since itâs accumulating, to do an entire mile. The following year youâll budget that entire mile. Striggow: Why wouldnât you report your accumulated MFT tax revenues? Why wouldnât that show? Wagner: Because if your budget gets to a certain amount, your status changes in TOI. Things like assets arenât sitting in you bank account, youâre not levying for them, so you donât show them as revenues. Same with bond money, you donât want to show that in your revenue. To get State monies you donât want your revenue to look higher than what they really are, for taxes. Then you get into a whole different category of what you have to do, hoops you have to jump through. Nolan: Can I have a motion to adjourn? There was a motion to adjourn the meeting by Trustee Wagner with a second by Trustee Newton. Voice vote: Motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:43 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Coffey, Clerk